Improved Color Workflow

Completed

Suggestion

clayton

Workflow Feature Request
Please improve the workflow for photographers. I'm really struggling with getting the colors I see in the app in Photoshop when exporting LUTs. Make this easier and more effective by using the same common color processing used by Lightroom and Photoshop to get consistent colors between apps. ProPhoto RGB does not display consistently in your application.

Workflow Use Case
I'm a photographer and need consisitnat color from this app into photoshop. The exporting of the images from the app. Something is missing and not getting 300dpi output using the RGB color space. Support responded once to my request for help and things have gone cold. This application could be a game changer, however without giving us correct color between this and lightroom and photoshop is a show stopper for me.

10 months ago

monokee

After many iterations and lots of feedback from photographers working in Lightroom and Photoshop, the recommendations for exchanging lossless, wide gamut images between applications have been updated:

Color Space: Display P3

File Format: Lossless 16bit PNG or TIFF

Lightroom / Camera RAW Workflow
Photoshop Workflow
The same recommendations apply to Capture One (no dedicated guide at this point)

Additionally, the recent updates to the RAW processor in Color.io and the inclusion of the new "RAW Standard" profile, make it easier to develop RAW images in Color.io and start with a normalized image, similar to traditional RAW editors like Lightroom or Camera RAW.

6 months ago (edited)

monokee

@clayton - hey again! First off all, there's nobody working on Color.io except me. It's not a secret that I develop the app and do everything else myself: https://www.color.io/about
Sorry if responding to emails can take a few days sometimes.

With that out of the way, let me repeat that it is absolutely and 100% possible to get the exact same colors between Color.io and Lightroom / Photoshop. You need to install the P3 D65 profile and follow the exact steps outlined in the user guide I sent you (both the Lightroom / ACR and the Photoshop article)

You said:
"ProPhoto RGB does not display consistently in your application."

What do you mean by that? You can not compare a ProPhoto RGB IDT, which is highly specific to the RAW debayering engine in Color.io, to a generic color space transform because that's not what it is. Again, you need to read the user guide, line by line, including the gotchas, if you want to get it right. The only guaranteed way to get matching colors between two completely different color processing and management systems (ACES in Color.io, proprietary ICC in Adobe) is to follow the recommended P3 D65 wide gamut workflow.

You can't just switch the IDT of whatever image to ProPhoto RGB and expect that you're now working in ProPhotoRGB. You are always working in ACES AP1 with a ACEScct gamma. An IDT is an input device transform that maps a signal from an input device like a camera to a working gamut. An ODT then maps the image that has been graded in the working gamut out to a physical display device with a reference rendering transform and various viewing environment compensations. This framework is an integral and essential part of the "look" you get from Color.io. If we were to swap that out for the ICC based system that Adobe uses we'd end up doing exactly what Adobe already does and what would be the fun/point in that?

DPI is a separate issue.

10 months ago

clayton

@monokee I wanted to share some feedback with you regarding my experience with your
software.
While I found the online guide to be helpful, I have unfortunately not been
able to resolve the color accuracy issue. I was reaching out to you in
hopes of receiving some additional assistance, as I am truly interested in
utilizing your software due to its potential integration with my workflow.
While I understand this may be a solo operation, I would appreciate
additional assistance resolving the color accuracy issue I'm experacing.
Overall, I believe your software holds great potential. However, I have
been experiencing some issues with the resolution and slow response time,
which has caused some frustration.
I thought it would be helpful to provide some constructive feedback in
hopes of improving the user experience for others as well. Perhaps
providing some additional resources or troubleshooting steps could help
alleviate these issues.
Thank you for taking the time to read this message. I am looking forward to
hearing back from you and hopefully finding a successful solution.
On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 9:17 AM Color.io wrote:
--
Clayton Bozard Photography LLC | info@claytonbozard.com | (803) 378-8200 |
http://www.claytonbozard.com

10 months ago

monokee

@clayton - I really do appreciate your feedback and suggestions and I hope I didn't come across as though I don't. In fact, the very reason I implemented the P3 wide gamut workflow and have written the Lightroom / PS articles is because I've received pretty much the exact same feedback from other users before and we've established the current model with other working photographers who use Color.io as part of multi-app workflow.

Here are the required steps when you start out with a RAW image in Lightroom in Adobe Camera RAW:

Open your RAW image in Lightroom or ACR
Set the RGB Working Space to P3 D65 Gamma 2.6 (download the profile from the user guide if you don't have it)
Create a neutral base image with Adobe's tools. Don't add too much contrast or saturation or anything you want to do in Color.io later. Things you can do at this point are noise reduction, shadow and highlight recovery, white balance and lens correction. Try to avoid clipping or dialing in a strong look at this point.
Export a lossless PNG image for Color.io. (Do not use Tiff or JPEG as those could contain embedded ICC profiles which are meaningless in the context of Color.io's color management system.)

Now switch to Color.io:

Open the lossless PNG you exported from Lightroom in Color.io. (Drag & Drop or Copy & Paste for speed)
Set the Input Color Space (camera icon dropdown) to P3 (D65)
Leave the Output Color Space on sRGB unless you have a very good reason not to.
Develop your look with the tools and presets in Color.io.

Now if you want to continue working on that same image in Photoshop, follow these steps:

In Color.io, export a wide gamut image or 3D LUT from Color.io by going to EXPORT → COLOR MANAGEMENT and select P3 D65 GAMMA 2.6 from the dropdown list. Then export either a lossless PNG image or 3D LUT.
In Photoshop, navigate to EDIT → COLOR SETTINGS → RGB WORKING, and select P3 D65 GAMMA 2.6. This step ensures Photoshop uses the wide gamut P3 color space that is also supported in Color.io.
Still in Photoshop, click on EDIT → ASSIGN COLOR PROFILE. Set the profile to WORKING RGB: P3 D65 GAMMA

When you follow these steps, the images should really match as verified on macOS and Windows by myself and multiple other users. If it's still not working, please share screenshots of your setup for all of these steps so I can dig in further.

Thank you!

10 months ago

clayton

@monokee Thank you for the reply. I will try this again.
One question: To make sure I'm not doing this step the incorrect way. How
do you set the RGB Working Space to P3 D65 Gamma 2.6 in Lightroom?
On Wed, Mar 6, 2024 at 10:07 AM Color.io
wrote:
--
Clayton Bozard Photography LLC | info@claytonbozard.com | (803) 378-8200 |
http://www.claytonbozard.com

10 months ago

monokee

@clayton sorry, the way I said that is potentially confusing and strictly speaking only applies to Adobe Camera RAW with Photoshop and only indirectly to Lightroom (see below).

Lightroom -> Color.io

I couldn't find any info on what color space Lightroom is using internally but I did some experiments and think they use Adobe RGB and I get a perfect match when I edit a RAW image in Lightroom and export that as a 16-bit Tiff into Color.io (unfortunately no PNG exports from Lightroom, why Adobe?!). All you have to do in Color.io is set the Input Color Space to Adobe RGB and leave the output on sRGB. With that setup you have to do your final render in Color.io.

ACR -> Photoshop -> Color.io (-> Photoshop)

If you start out in ACR via Photoshop instead of Lightroom, you can directly assign the P3 D65 2.6 profile at the bottom of the camera raw preview window as per the user guide article.

Lightroom -> Photoshop -> Color.io (-> Photoshop)

Start in Lightroom, develop your RAW image, then choose "Open in Photoshop". In Photoshop, assign the P3 D65 Profile as per the user guide, do you editing and finally export a 16-bit PNG. Open that PNG in Color.io, set the input color space to to P3 (D65), leave the output color space on sRGB for previewing purposes. If you do your final render in Color.io, just export as is (ie leave Output Color Management on "Same as Preview"). If you want to bring the image back into Photoshop after Color.io, choose "P3 D65 Gamma 2.6" under Export -> Color Management.

I don't think that there's an easier way to do it even though I really wish there was :D

10 months ago

monokee

Color Space: Display P3

File Format: Lossless 16bit PNG or TIFF

Lightroom / Camera RAW Workflow
Photoshop Workflow
The same recommendations apply to Capture One (no dedicated guide at this point)

6 months ago (edited)

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